kerdi membrane over cement board

When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. I'm thirsty. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. I still wet the walls first. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? Yes. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. x 60 in. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. Welcome to the site. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Hi.I have a unique situation. ! Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. You provide the pitch during the tile set. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. I also used the Kerdi drain. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Is this overkill? Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. You are wise to use a cement board. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. Some being easier to work with than others. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. The 30-in. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Anytime Mongo. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? 4. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. We want that inside corner able to move. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. Step 2: Determine the room's center. ;). When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . In my. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. DensShield is one common brand. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! The colour is different. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Like the example above. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. To line niche shelves, for instance. See the foam bench and the corners. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. It only takes a minute to sign up. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. Caulk the gap. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. All it takes is the right preparation. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Thanks to all for the feedback. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. It fell right off? ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. How did this project turn out? But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. :/. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Why you use cement board? How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Step 8: Allow to dry. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Redgard is a similar product. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Fixing that is not that easy though. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit.

kerdi membrane over cement board 2023